The Word vs The Trinitarian
This page is deicated to deunking the Trinitarian belief that the Word is part of a Trinity or Triune God. This belief is strong among Church goers, but not so much among the average person who believes in Jesus.
Therfore, I decided to bring out both sides and show that the Trinity God, or Triune God, is purely made up and isn't biblical at all.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." John 1:1 and 1:2.
It seems so simple. Such a message. So easy to read. The word is God, how much easier can that be? So why is it such a contraversy? It's because of verse 1:14. It goes like this:
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
Well, there you have it. Now it really is simple. If the word became flesh, and the word is God, then the flesh must also be God. Well, then, I guess i'll just shut up now since it is so clear and convincing.
So why all the contraversey over it? That's because Jesus isn't the word, God is, and even though his word became flesh, doesn't mean God became flesh.
Jesus is part of the Trinity/Triune belief, where according to the Trinitarians, his part plays the role of creator and savior. But what I have seen, is none of them can tell me when Jesus was born, or created. So let's start there.
Contrary to what is taught by many people, Jesus is not that old. Until a person starts looking deeper into scripture, they think of Jesus as being born by the vrigin Mary. However, scholars go deeper than that, and so that's where I am about to go.
The bible says this: "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
His claiming to exist before he was ever born from Mary is what stirs up the contraversy over his existance and place with God, or even as God himself that many claim.
The only place in the bible that shows Jesus existing before being born from Mary, is found in chapter 12 of the Book of Revelation. Contrary to what most peopel think, chapter 12 is all past events. This is important in understanding the many things found there.
But for now, we'll stay with the birth of Jesus. The first thing we see is this:
"Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars." Verse 1:1.
"Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth." Verse 1:2
"And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads." Verse 1:3
"His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born." Verse 1:4
"She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne." Verse 1:5
I will stop here for now because this is primarily what I want to show. The woman is about to give birth to a son. This son will rule the world and the nations. Now let's look at detail.
"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
"And the government will be upon his shoulder." This is a prophecy of sending one of God's sons into the world to be a world leader. While many people can take it as inconclusive of a pre existence of Jesus, it none the less shows what his duty will be, and that matchs what is found in chapter 12.
Pay attention to this; the woman has the moon at her feet. She is clothed with the sun, and has 12 stars about her head. While the stars may represent angels, or not, the rest that surrounds her does not.
Look now what Satan did. Before the child was born, he gathered 1/3 of the stars and threw them to earth. He sent them right on down to earth before the child was born. Did you catch that? Before the child was born he threw 1/3 of the angels down to earth.
"His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the Earth.
Notice this as well, the heavens and earth were made before the woman ever gave birth to the child.
That child is Jesus, because he is the only one who is the rule all the nations. Revelation confirms this in the very first chapter.
"and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. Rev 1:2
When Jesus was born in heaven, he was then taken up to God's throne. So what does that mean? It means he spent his time with God. No doubt learning how God thinks, how he acts, and how he does things. Jesus is not known to have left heaven until he was sent by God.
This also means that God existed long before Jesus was ever born in heaven. This is noted because the throne was already there, and therefore God was already there. And on a side note, we see that Satan is already alive as well, but he wasn't close to the throne of God. Only Jesus was allowed to go up there.
Now let's look at the days of creation, because when we connect Revelation with the Book of Genesis, we can see when Jesus was born in heaven.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Gen 1:1
One thing that shold be noted though, a day to God is like 1,000 years to us. That means it took God 6,000 years to create everything before he rested on the 7th day. Includig the day of rest makes it 7,000 years total, or thereabouts.
"But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Pet 3:10
In going on with creation, we find it wasn't until the fifth day of creation that fish, birds and such were made. So let's stop here for a minute and place a time line of events.
The Moon, the stars, the earth, were all ALREADY made when Jesus was born in heaven.
Day one: heavens and earth, light and darkness were separated.
Day two: dividing the water and firmament.
Day three: trees, grass, and fruits of the trees.
Day four: lights in the firmament, dividing day from night, seasons, sun and moon created.
All of this was done before the woman in Chapter 12 appeared in the heavens. And before Satan was cast out of heaven. Otherwise, they would not have been around for John to have seen them. He was shown the past as you will see in a moment.
So let's keep this simple. Genesis shows us that God created all things up to day 4, and that Jesus wasn't even born yet in chapter 12. That alone should prove Jesus did not create the heavens and earth. So why don't the Trinitarian's stop at that and accept it as truth?
I'll go on with another verse Trinitarian's use to make people believe Jesus is God.
Colossians 1:15 and 1:16
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." 1:15
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." 1:16
"The firsborn over all creation? Well, that's how it's written in the Modern King James Version Bible, MKJV. But how is it written in others? The Standard Version has it written like this:
"who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;"
Ok, so now we have controversy. One bible says "of" all creation, the other says "over" all creation. So which is it? Or does it matter?
The original word is Pas (pas). Which means everything, but there is no referrence as to whether it is "over" or "of."
So the verse should read like this: First born every creation. Of and Over are not there.
Clearly there is small contradiction here, but as we know by chapter 12, Jesus wasn't even born when most of the creation was done or being made.
Since Jesus is to rule over all creation, then it is suiting to use "over" and not the word "of." Therefore: "the firstborn over all creation" is suited.
Trinitarian's also use verse 16 to claim Jesus is the creator.
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him."
Now look at these scriptures found in Rev 4:10 and 4:11.
the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
"You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."
They cast their Crowns before "him who sits on the throne." And just who is it who sits on the throne? It's not Jesus, it's God almighty.
As you can see, Jesus didn't create anything. Therefore, we know verse 16 is talking about God, not Jesus.
God created all things, vivible and invisible. And all of it is done for him, and through him. Not through Jesus.
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;
That's pretty clear. Both the book of Revelation, and the book of Isaiah state that God almighty created and made all things in heaven and on earth. No exception.
But the Trinitarians won't stop there. so I'll go on.
While it's safe to say Jesus was born on either day 5 or day 6 of creation, some will argue it could have been even later if they really wanted to argue. However, they will loose because there is one major exception. Jesus was born before Satan was cast out of heaven.
Chapter 12 shows Satan was cast out of heaven in verse 9.
"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Satan was cast out of heaven and down to Earth. Where? Down to earth. This was after Jesus was born in heaven. Therefore, we know Jesus was born sometime after the 4th day of creation, but before Satan was cast out of heaven.
So when was Satan cast out?
"So the Lord God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life."
"On your belly you shall go." This was the casting out of Satan, and it took place during the days of the Garden of Eden. But which day was it?
God said to Adam: "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Adam lived to be 940 years old. He was created on the 6th day after all the animals had been created. By backdating his life, we can determine he was created around 600 to 660 years into the 6th day. This means he ate from the tree on the 7th day of creation, and died on the 7th day.
Which is also the Day of Rest.
What this does, is place the birth of Jesus somewhere between the 4th day of creation and the 7th day of creation. We can rule out the 7th day because that was the day of rest. And it is also the Sabbath.
And He said to them, "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
This indicates that he was already born in heaven on the 7th day, so this only leaves the 5th day or 6th day of creation for Jesus to be born in heaven. Jesus said this when he was here, that he saw Satan fall from heaven:
"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." Luke 10:18
This is exactly what chapter 12 shows. It shows Jesus being born, then Satan being cast out afterwards. Satan was then cast out on the 7th day of creation, called the day of rest, and is the Sabbath Day.
So when Jesus said: Before Abraham was, I AM. he was telling the truth.
So what about the use of I AM? Is that important? The answer is no, but Trinitarians have made it important and claim he is saying he is God by saying I AM.
Now for a little history on I AM. But I will keep it short here.
I AM
I AM, or rather I am, is said 114 times in the New Testament. It does not refer to God in any of those instances. I AM, or rather I am, is used to convey the conversation to ones self, or about ones self.
It means I was, It is me, I existed, I am the one, I, and so on.
I am comes from the words Ego Eimi. But Jesus was not the only one to use those exact words. Peter said it, John the Baptist said it many times, the apostle Paul said it many times as well.
The angel Gabriel said it and so did Zacharias. So why doesn't the Trinitarians call them God, if I AM means God? Humm . . .
WORD
So now that you know that, what exactly does The Word mean? It means God has given his word, his promise, his prophecy, his intent, to bring a savior into the world to do his work for him.
"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel." Isa 7:14
That's called prophecy. God gave his word.
"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
(this is where the child is born in heaven to rule with a rod of iron)
That too is called prophecy. God gave his word.
Now some Trinitarians make the claim that Jesus was on earth before he came to be born as a man by Mary. This is one of the verses they use.
". . . all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ."
"For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ." Some Trinitarians are usign this to say that Jesus was here on earth and was spiritually guiding Moses.
But the Old Testament claims that God is the Rock. Again, since Trinitarians claim that God is the Rock, and that verse calls Jesus the Rock, they argue that Jesus is God and he is the rock that lead Moses.
"The Lord lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let God be exalted, The Rock of my salvation!" 2 Sam 22:47
"In God is my salvation and my glory; The rock of my strength, And my refuge, is in God." Ps 62:7
"He shall cry to Me, 'You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation." Ps 89:26
As you can see God is the Rock of Salvation, not Jesus. Jesus was just the appointed one to show us the way to that Rock. And since all things were delivered into his hand, Jesus could also claim he was the Rock.
So Moses didn't follow Jesus, he followed God. Since Jesus came after Moses, that verse means nothing when it comes to claiming it is saying Jesus was here on earth during the days of Moses.
"And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:23
"And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Mat 3:17
"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." John 3:13
One more thing I need to add. It is from Isa 9:6. "And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Read the following closely: and His name will be called . . . Mighty God, Everlasting Father." Jesus is not from everlasting, nor is he the Father or creator. Therefore, this verse is not calling Jesus God almighty, or God the Father.
The reasoning is simple.
Jesus was born, and died, but when he was resurrected, he is alive now forever. Going forward, he will be considered everlasting. Father also means teacher, of which he was called many times. Prince of Peace, again, we are at the Son of God reasoning that he is Messiah the Prince, resurrected.
"I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." John 20:17
"And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, Rev 22:3
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; Mat 28:19-20
Baptizing does not make or create a Trinity or Triune God. Therefore, make sure what you teach is what you are suppose to be teaching.
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them." Job 1:6 (& 2:1)
"Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?
To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And ALL the Sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:3 to 38:7
The botton line is this, God has many sons, but Jesus is the only one chosen to come down from heaven and finish Gods work. He is not God, nor is he part of a Trinity or Trune God. Jesus is not the creator. He is one of God's sons, the only one of flesh, blood, and bone.
"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." Luke 24:39
". . . and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." 1 John 4:3
The scriptures are clear. The spirit of God does not claim Jesus is God or part of a Trinity or Triune God. His spirit tells those whom he has chosen who Jesus really is. And they hear his voice.
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